WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 00:00:04.033 --> 00:00:06.400 -...recorded for you teachers out there. 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:07.534 If you want to show this 00:00:07.534 --> 00:00:09.634 to multiple sections of your classroom, 00:00:09.634 --> 00:00:12.501 you know, of your class, you know, in the coming days, 00:00:12.501 --> 00:00:13.868 you will have this available to you, 00:00:13.868 --> 00:00:17.200 and I will e-mail you after about how you do that 00:00:17.200 --> 00:00:18.634 and how you watch the recordings. 00:00:18.634 --> 00:00:20.133 So that'll come after the webinar, 00:00:20.133 --> 00:00:22.267 and for those of you that are stuck snowed in, 00:00:22.267 --> 00:00:24.000 you're in luck with that, too. 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.400 So I'm going to transition into a different room now. 00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:29.067 You're going to see the room just change a little bit, 00:00:29.067 --> 00:00:31.334 and I'm going to tell you what we're going to do today. 00:00:31.334 --> 00:00:33.601 All right. So, come on. There we go. 00:00:33.601 --> 00:00:35.367 So you don't see me yet. 00:00:35.367 --> 00:00:37.033 I'll put that up in a second, 00:00:37.033 --> 00:00:38.834 but what we're going to spend time on, 00:00:38.834 --> 00:00:41.000 just for the first 5 minutes, 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.968 is we are going to actually 00:00:43.968 --> 00:00:46.834 do just a quick overview of the Holocaust. 00:00:46.834 --> 00:00:49.100 Now, this program is not that. 00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:50.567 It's not an overview. 00:00:50.567 --> 00:00:52.934 We're going to spend as much time as possible 00:00:52.934 --> 00:00:55.934 talking with Luna today and asking her questions. 00:00:55.934 --> 00:00:58.100 But just so everybody kind of gets on the same page, 00:00:58.100 --> 00:01:00.133 we're going to spend 5 minutes on that, 00:01:00.133 --> 00:01:03.000 and then we're going to turn it over to Luna 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.634 And I'm going to be asking you -- 00:01:04.634 --> 00:01:07.434 or asking her -- excuse me -- some of your awesome questions, 00:01:07.434 --> 00:01:09.634 some that were already sent in 00:01:09.634 --> 00:01:13.100 and some that you guys can type in live. 00:01:13.100 --> 00:01:15.167 So what you see kind of on the left-hand side 00:01:15.167 --> 00:01:17.434 of this webinar area, 00:01:17.434 --> 00:01:21.067 this webinar room, is what we call a Q&A pod. 00:01:21.067 --> 00:01:22.934 You can see you can type in that Q&A pod, 00:01:22.934 --> 00:01:25.801 and I will be looking at it throughout the program 00:01:25.801 --> 00:01:27.400 And if you want to ask Luna a question, 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.234 we'll be taking some questions from that pod today. 00:01:31.234 --> 00:01:33.601 Now, we have a lot of people watching with us, 00:01:33.601 --> 00:01:34.934 so we won't be able 00:01:34.934 --> 00:01:36.767 to even scratch the surface of the amount 00:01:36.767 --> 00:01:39.300 that you're going to be asking, I'm sure, 00:01:39.300 --> 00:01:41.701 but we will try our best to answer, 00:01:41.701 --> 00:01:43.567 you know, your questions today. 00:01:43.567 --> 00:01:45.334 So, as I said, we're going to start off 00:01:45.334 --> 00:01:47.100 with a quick overview of the Holocaust, 00:01:47.100 --> 00:01:49.033 and so I need to ask you guys a couple questions 00:01:49.033 --> 00:01:52.067 to see if you're up to snuff on your history. 00:01:52.067 --> 00:01:55.434 So I've got a poll question I'm bringing in here first, 00:01:55.434 --> 00:01:57.000 and if you guys haven't done this before, 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.167 you're going to see it come up onscreen. 00:01:59.167 --> 00:02:00.834 And I'm opening up a poll. 00:02:00.834 --> 00:02:02.267 My question for you guys, 00:02:02.267 --> 00:02:04.534 just to see that we're all on the same page, is, 00:02:04.534 --> 00:02:06.501 how long ago did the Holocaust take place? 00:02:06.501 --> 00:02:10.300 So, A, 20 years ago, in the 1990s, 00:02:10.300 --> 00:02:13.167 B, 40 years ago, 1970s, 00:02:13.167 --> 00:02:16.701 C, 70 years ago, which is the 1940s or so, 00:02:16.701 --> 00:02:21.367 or D, 100 years ago, 1910s, 19-teens. 00:02:21.367 --> 00:02:24.367 All right. I'm going to wait for you guys to respond, 00:02:24.367 --> 00:02:27.267 and it looks like you all know what time in history 00:02:27.267 --> 00:02:28.567 we're talking about. 00:02:28.567 --> 00:02:30.000 Very good. All right. 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.367 So, we're going to publish the results. 00:02:32.367 --> 00:02:35.534 So you guys can see almost 60% of you guys 00:02:35.534 --> 00:02:37.801 know that this was now 70 years ago. 00:02:37.801 --> 00:02:39.234 Very, very good. 00:02:39.234 --> 00:02:40.334 All right. So let's -- 00:02:40.334 --> 00:02:42.000 In addition to that, as I said, 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.701 we're just going to do the quickest of overviews 00:02:44.701 --> 00:02:46.267 and talk about what the Holocaust is 00:02:46.267 --> 00:02:48.834 in less than 5 minutes. 00:02:48.834 --> 00:02:50.334 And, of course, you're going to be spending 00:02:50.334 --> 00:02:52.901 lots and lots of time on this in your classroom 00:02:52.901 --> 00:02:55.200 if you haven't already, but this is just so that 00:02:55.200 --> 00:02:57.701 we are all on the same page together today. 00:02:57.701 --> 00:02:59.834 So, okay, what is the Holocaust? 00:02:59.834 --> 00:03:02.701 Now, a definition you might find in your textbooks 00:03:02.701 --> 00:03:04.267 is something kind of like this -- 00:03:04.267 --> 00:03:08.234 "The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic 00:03:08.234 --> 00:03:09.934 state-sponsored persecution 00:03:09.934 --> 00:03:12.901 and murder of approximately 6 million Jewish people 00:03:12.901 --> 00:03:17.667 by the Nazi regime before and during World War II. 00:03:17.667 --> 00:03:20.200 Also, you guys might talk about in your class, as well, 00:03:20.200 --> 00:03:23.334 that there were close to up to 5 million non-Jewish people 00:03:23.334 --> 00:03:26.501 who were also killed by the Nazis during the Holocaust, 00:03:26.501 --> 00:03:30.033 and you can see that coming up onscreen right now. 00:03:30.033 --> 00:03:32.868 And another thing of course you might talk about 00:03:32.868 --> 00:03:35.701 with World War II in general is Nazi Germany, 00:03:35.701 --> 00:03:38.601 and with the rise of the Nazi party, 00:03:38.601 --> 00:03:40.968 with the rise of Hitler, 00:03:40.968 --> 00:03:44.968 anti-Semitism, discrimination, and violence 00:03:44.968 --> 00:03:47.334 became a government policy. 00:03:47.334 --> 00:03:48.968 And as I said, I know I'm just briefly 00:03:48.968 --> 00:03:50.200 touching on these things, 00:03:50.200 --> 00:03:51.567 but you guys will talk about this 00:03:51.567 --> 00:03:54.601 plenty, plenty, plenty in class. 00:03:54.601 --> 00:03:59.033 And soon certain policies and certain restrictions 00:03:59.033 --> 00:04:00.300 against Jewish people, 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:02.367 you know, appeared in Nazi Germany 00:04:02.367 --> 00:04:04.701 and eventually Nazi-occupied countries. 00:04:04.701 --> 00:04:07.501 You all will talk about the Nuremberg laws, 00:04:07.501 --> 00:04:11.033 restrictions against Jewish people in many aspects of life. 00:04:11.033 --> 00:04:13.033 You'll also talk about Kristallnacht, 00:04:13.033 --> 00:04:14.667 the night of broken glass, 00:04:14.667 --> 00:04:18.234 violent riots against Jewish businesses and synagogues. 00:04:18.234 --> 00:04:20.234 Those are some things that you'll touch on. 00:04:20.234 --> 00:04:25.667 You'll also eventually touch on escalating into ghettos 00:04:25.667 --> 00:04:27.467 and completely separating, 00:04:27.467 --> 00:04:30.734 isolating Jewish people in cities and towns 00:04:30.734 --> 00:04:33.434 across Nazi-occupied Europe. 00:04:33.434 --> 00:04:39.100 So, this complete separation, control, and confinement. 00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.834 And then eventually, though, these ghettos were liquidated. 00:04:41.834 --> 00:04:44.834 People were moved out of these ghettos to eventually -- 00:04:44.834 --> 00:04:47.601 Many, many, many went to what we call 00:04:47.601 --> 00:04:50.701 either a concentration camp or an extermination camp. 00:04:50.701 --> 00:04:53.901 You've maybe heard "death camp" or "killing center." 00:04:53.901 --> 00:04:56.534 Luna is going to tell you about the concentration camps today 00:04:56.534 --> 00:04:57.968 that she went to. 00:04:57.968 --> 00:05:00.133 But, you know, we kind of define these 00:05:00.133 --> 00:05:02.567 in a different way from each other. 00:05:02.567 --> 00:05:04.267 Concentration camps are usually camps 00:05:04.267 --> 00:05:06.868 where victims were imprisoned without a trial, 00:05:06.868 --> 00:05:09.267 and as the war went on, these camps, of course, 00:05:09.267 --> 00:05:11.601 incorporated forced labor. 00:05:11.601 --> 00:05:14.501 And then a death camp specifically were camps 00:05:14.501 --> 00:05:17.534 where victims were killed on this large scale. 00:05:17.534 --> 00:05:19.133 But eventually -- 00:05:19.133 --> 00:05:22.234 and kind of actually related to why we're talking today -- 00:05:22.234 --> 00:05:24.767 these camps, as the Allies -- 00:05:24.767 --> 00:05:28.033 the United States, the British, the Russians -- 00:05:28.033 --> 00:05:30.801 as they came in to Nazi-occupied territory, 00:05:30.801 --> 00:05:33.400 they came across many of these concentration camps 00:05:33.400 --> 00:05:34.834 and death camps 00:05:34.834 --> 00:05:36.934 and were shocked by what they found 00:05:36.934 --> 00:05:39.434 and also finding many, many dead, 00:05:39.434 --> 00:05:42.467 but also living survivors. 00:05:42.467 --> 00:05:45.167 And actually today, everyone -- the reason we're talking -- 00:05:45.167 --> 00:05:49.067 today is the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. 00:05:49.067 --> 00:05:53.033 And today is also, because of that anniversary, 00:05:53.033 --> 00:05:56.000 International Holocaust Remembrance Day. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.000 Now, I'm going to bring up a quote onscreen, 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.033 and this is actually how we're going to close out 00:06:01.033 --> 00:06:03.534 the webinar today, but throughout this program, 00:06:03.534 --> 00:06:05.467 I want you to be thinking about this quote 00:06:05.467 --> 00:06:07.133 from Martin Niemoller. 00:06:07.133 --> 00:06:10.000 He was a religious person, as you can tell, 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:12.100 but he was part of this Confessional Church 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:14.934 that protested against what the Nazis were doing, 00:06:14.934 --> 00:06:17.767 but as you can see here, he never really spoke out, 00:06:17.767 --> 00:06:21.133 he said, for the victims, especially Jewish people. 00:06:21.133 --> 00:06:25.267 And later, after the war, he said this, onscreen. 00:06:25.267 --> 00:06:27.934 "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, 00:06:27.934 --> 00:06:31.033 and I didn't speak up because I was not a Communist. 00:06:31.033 --> 00:06:33.200 Then they came for the Jews, 00:06:33.200 --> 00:06:36.801 and I did not speak up because I was not a Jew. 00:06:36.801 --> 00:06:39.033 Then they came for the trade unionists. 00:06:39.033 --> 00:06:42.100 I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. 00:06:42.100 --> 00:06:43.801 Then they came for the Catholics, 00:06:43.801 --> 00:06:46.534 and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. 00:06:46.534 --> 00:06:49.501 Then they came for me, and by that time, 00:06:49.501 --> 00:06:51.434 there was no one left to speak up." 00:06:51.434 --> 00:06:53.033 Now, this is a really powerful quote 00:06:53.033 --> 00:06:54.434 that I'm going to ask you about 00:06:54.434 --> 00:06:55.734 a little bit later in the program, 00:06:55.734 --> 00:06:57.634 so just keep thinking about that. 00:06:57.634 --> 00:07:00.567 But I think it's an important message for today, 00:07:00.567 --> 00:07:02.133 also of course, you know, in history, 00:07:02.133 --> 00:07:05.367 but an important message today that I think Luna is going to be 00:07:05.367 --> 00:07:08.300 touching on a lot during this program. 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:10.467 So what I'm going to do now, though, is hide this. 00:07:10.467 --> 00:07:13.133 I know. Wasn't that the quickest overview probably ever? 00:07:13.133 --> 00:07:14.434 But you guys want to talk to Luna. 00:07:14.434 --> 00:07:16.801 I know that's what we want to do here. 00:07:16.801 --> 00:07:18.634 So I'm going to start my webcam. 00:07:18.634 --> 00:07:21.300 And all right, Luna, let's see if we're both onscreen here. 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:23.234 All right. There we go. 00:07:23.234 --> 00:07:25.634 All right. So, you all see us now. 00:07:25.634 --> 00:07:29.400 So, everyone in the digital world, this is Luna Kaufman. 00:07:29.400 --> 00:07:31.701 She is our wonderful guest star today, 00:07:31.701 --> 00:07:35.734 and we're so glad that she's here today with us 00:07:35.734 --> 00:07:37.467 and talking with us here at the museum, 00:07:37.467 --> 00:07:42.501 actually not just once but twice today, which is pretty crazy. 00:07:42.501 --> 00:07:44.133 And I'll give you details if you want to watch her 00:07:44.133 --> 00:07:45.934 again later this evening. 00:07:45.934 --> 00:07:48.834 But right now Luna will be talking to us today. 00:07:48.834 --> 00:07:50.234 We're so glad you're with us. 00:07:50.234 --> 00:07:51.767 Thank you so much for being here. 00:07:51.767 --> 00:07:52.968 -My pleasure. 00:07:52.968 --> 00:07:55.133 -And, you know, we have a lot of questions 00:07:55.133 --> 00:07:56.701 for you today, as you know. 00:07:56.701 --> 00:08:00.367 I sent Luna over 100 student questions 00:08:00.367 --> 00:08:01.934 before this program even started. 00:08:01.934 --> 00:08:03.434 So, thank you, everyone. 00:08:03.434 --> 00:08:04.601 And so we're going to be starting 00:08:04.601 --> 00:08:06.033 with some of those questions today, 00:08:06.033 --> 00:08:09.033 but I hope you put some more in that Q&A pod there. 00:08:09.033 --> 00:08:12.234 But, Luna, can you first tell us where you're from? 00:08:12.234 --> 00:08:13.801 Tell us a little bit about your family, 00:08:13.801 --> 00:08:17.400 about your childhood, you know, that sort of thing. 00:08:17.400 --> 00:08:19.901 -I was born in Krakow, Poland, 00:08:19.901 --> 00:08:25.000 of a family that traces its roots back to 1700. 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.400 And I don't know beyond that 00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:30.534 because our family history only goes to 1700s. 00:08:30.534 --> 00:08:34.667 I was born in a house as a fourth generation 00:08:34.667 --> 00:08:36.734 in the same house, the same place, 00:08:36.734 --> 00:08:41.400 and that's where I lived until the Nazis chased us out. 00:08:41.400 --> 00:08:45.300 We had a middle-class family. 00:08:45.300 --> 00:08:46.767 We were quite comfortable, 00:08:46.767 --> 00:08:49.467 and we were one of the assimilated families, 00:08:49.467 --> 00:08:53.534 which means that we lived a life together 00:08:53.534 --> 00:08:57.334 with our Polish neighbors and participated 00:08:57.334 --> 00:08:59.501 in any of the Polish endeavors. 00:08:59.501 --> 00:09:04.968 As a matter of fact, my 94-year-old grandfather, 00:09:04.968 --> 00:09:07.734 who was killed at that time by the Germans 00:09:07.734 --> 00:09:11.067 because he refused to kneel in front of them, 00:09:11.067 --> 00:09:16.033 was a messenger in an uprising, 00:09:16.033 --> 00:09:20.400 Polish uprising in the 1800s. 00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:26.434 And the family goes back as big activists in Poland, 00:09:26.434 --> 00:09:29.434 and we had a lot of Polish friends and Jewish friends. 00:09:29.434 --> 00:09:32.767 I attended school 00:09:32.767 --> 00:09:36.767 where I was one of three Jewish children. 00:09:36.767 --> 00:09:39.334 Otherwise, the school was a Catholic school 00:09:39.334 --> 00:09:41.634 because all the state schools 00:09:41.634 --> 00:09:46.567 were run as Catholic schools with the church supervising it, 00:09:46.567 --> 00:09:52.300 and I personally did not suffer any discrimination in school. 00:09:52.300 --> 00:09:54.234 As a matter of fact, for the most part -- 00:09:54.234 --> 00:09:56.501 I was the president of the class, 00:09:56.501 --> 00:09:58.801 and nobody made an issue. 00:09:58.801 --> 00:10:00.934 When I was a little girl, 00:10:00.934 --> 00:10:02.834 about I think 8 years old, 00:10:02.834 --> 00:10:05.267 one of my -- or 7 years old, 00:10:05.267 --> 00:10:08.734 one of my Christian friends, 00:10:08.734 --> 00:10:11.501 another girl, called me a dirty Jew. 00:10:11.501 --> 00:10:15.467 And I knocked out her two front teeth for that. 00:10:15.467 --> 00:10:21.200 And the principal of the school punished her rather than me. 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:27.567 So, this whole image that there was a tremendous difference 00:10:27.567 --> 00:10:30.334 between the Poles and the Jews -- 00:10:30.334 --> 00:10:34.868 It's true, while there was still a lot of anti-Semitism 00:10:34.868 --> 00:10:36.834 and other problems, 00:10:36.834 --> 00:10:41.834 there were some people who were much more progressive 00:10:41.834 --> 00:10:44.901 and much more integrated than the others 00:10:44.901 --> 00:10:47.934 because the very religious obviously stayed 00:10:47.934 --> 00:10:50.133 within their own circles. 00:10:50.133 --> 00:10:53.601 But we were not that religious. 00:10:53.601 --> 00:10:57.267 We were also much more integrated 00:10:57.267 --> 00:10:59.434 with the rest of the society. 00:11:01.667 --> 00:11:04.200 I was 12 when the war broke out. 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:08.701 So, as you can figure out very fast, I'm now 88. 00:11:08.701 --> 00:11:15.567 And I really feel that we do need to work together 00:11:15.567 --> 00:11:18.300 and we do need to talk to each other 00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:20.067 and learn about each other. 00:11:20.067 --> 00:11:22.067 I think that a lot of the problems 00:11:22.067 --> 00:11:24.868 are stemming from the ignorance. 00:11:24.868 --> 00:11:27.067 The Jews don't know about the Christian, 00:11:27.067 --> 00:11:29.334 the Christians don't know about the Muslims, 00:11:29.334 --> 00:11:31.567 and nobody knows and nobody wants to hear 00:11:31.567 --> 00:11:33.300 about anybody else. 00:11:33.300 --> 00:11:35.834 So, I think it's very important 00:11:35.834 --> 00:11:39.167 that we open our eyes and ears 00:11:39.167 --> 00:11:40.934 and we reach out to others 00:11:40.934 --> 00:11:46.534 in order to create a better world than existed 00:11:46.534 --> 00:11:50.334 because it was just horrible what was in existence. 00:11:50.334 --> 00:11:52.834 -And that's why, you know, a lot of times, 00:11:52.834 --> 00:11:55.834 students ask me personally, you know, 00:11:55.834 --> 00:11:57.834 "Why are we talking about this? Why are we studying this? 00:11:57.834 --> 00:12:01.367 We talk about it a lot in school. 00:12:01.367 --> 00:12:02.501 How does this matter to me?" 00:12:02.501 --> 00:12:03.801 And I think that sums it up right there. 00:12:03.801 --> 00:12:05.501 And I think that's, you know, 00:12:05.501 --> 00:12:07.567 what we're going to kind of hit home hopefully 00:12:07.567 --> 00:12:11.100 with everybody, you know, throughout the program. 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:12.968 A lot of students were wondering, you know, 00:12:12.968 --> 00:12:15.834 how your life changed when the Nazis invaded 00:12:15.834 --> 00:12:18.901 and how quickly, you know, things started to happen, 00:12:18.901 --> 00:12:22.167 you know, in Poland after 1939. 00:12:22.167 --> 00:12:23.901 -That's very interesting 00:12:23.901 --> 00:12:28.634 because, really, when the war broke out, 00:12:28.634 --> 00:12:30.467 we were of the set of mind 00:12:30.467 --> 00:12:32.801 that Germany was the most liberal country, 00:12:32.801 --> 00:12:34.634 most accepting country. 00:12:34.634 --> 00:12:37.934 As a matter of fact, when the anti-Semitism was raging 00:12:37.934 --> 00:12:39.467 in all the other countries, 00:12:39.467 --> 00:12:43.133 the Jews were getting the best education in Germany, 00:12:43.133 --> 00:12:47.868 and somehow, nobody believed that a country 00:12:47.868 --> 00:12:53.901 which was considered a cultural summit of Europe 00:12:53.901 --> 00:12:55.801 would behave in this manner. 00:12:55.801 --> 00:12:58.801 Nobody believed that they are, 00:12:58.801 --> 00:13:03.167 you know, too encompassing 00:13:03.167 --> 00:13:06.033 and too reaching out and then they would turn. 00:13:06.033 --> 00:13:08.868 And nobody wanted to believe it. 00:13:08.868 --> 00:13:12.234 So while the -- 00:13:12.234 --> 00:13:15.367 In the '30s, early '30s, 00:13:15.367 --> 00:13:18.834 when the Nazis started in Germany, 00:13:18.834 --> 00:13:22.067 we were still attuned to the fact 00:13:22.067 --> 00:13:25.334 that this is something temporary 00:13:25.334 --> 00:13:29.734 and this is something that isn't going to develop into anything. 00:13:29.734 --> 00:13:34.968 Even so, the shipments of Jews escaping from Germany 00:13:34.968 --> 00:13:36.801 were coming to Poland, 00:13:36.801 --> 00:13:40.734 and my mother was serving on a committee in housing 00:13:40.734 --> 00:13:42.634 and feeding the people, 00:13:42.634 --> 00:13:46.534 still did not think that this is a possibility. 00:13:46.534 --> 00:13:49.567 And everybody says, "Oh, why didn't you run away?" 00:13:49.567 --> 00:13:52.133 -Yeah, that's another question I got, too, yeah. 00:13:52.133 --> 00:13:55.534 -When you think about it, run away where? 00:13:55.534 --> 00:13:59.234 Anti-Semitism was raging all over Europe, everywhere, 00:13:59.234 --> 00:14:01.667 and also people did not travel 00:14:01.667 --> 00:14:04.300 and they did not resettle as easily. 00:14:04.300 --> 00:14:05.634 Don't forget when -- 00:14:05.634 --> 00:14:09.501 We were a family going back to 1700. 00:14:09.501 --> 00:14:14.434 Our whole family, a very large one, lived in Poland. 00:14:14.434 --> 00:14:18.167 So, how do you separate yourself and leave everybody behind 00:14:18.167 --> 00:14:20.167 and just take off? 00:14:20.167 --> 00:14:23.634 You still want to hold on to the rest of the family, 00:14:23.634 --> 00:14:25.200 to the rest of the roots, 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.400 and everything else was completely foreign to us. 00:14:28.400 --> 00:14:30.000 But while it was foreign, 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.701 my father was always aware of the fact 00:14:33.701 --> 00:14:38.501 that you have to have some kind of a profession 00:14:38.501 --> 00:14:41.734 that is in your hands, that you don't need the language 00:14:41.734 --> 00:14:44.501 in case you will need to move 00:14:44.501 --> 00:14:46.901 because he was a war prisoner. 00:14:46.901 --> 00:14:48.834 He was an Austrian officer 00:14:48.834 --> 00:14:53.501 and was a war prisoner in first war in Russia. 00:14:53.501 --> 00:14:56.934 And because he was very handy -- 00:14:56.934 --> 00:14:59.300 He did speak Russian also, 00:14:59.300 --> 00:15:01.901 but still, because he was handy, 00:15:01.901 --> 00:15:07.267 he was able to start by repairing umbrellas 00:15:07.267 --> 00:15:10.200 and then switched to embroidering the vestments 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.300 for church and making nice money and being able to live -- 00:15:14.300 --> 00:15:17.968 because prisoners didn't live in prison camps 00:15:17.968 --> 00:15:20.567 the way they did in the second war. 00:15:20.567 --> 00:15:22.801 I don't exactly know how they were living, 00:15:22.801 --> 00:15:24.234 how they were accommodated, 00:15:24.234 --> 00:15:26.767 but they really needed to make their own money 00:15:26.767 --> 00:15:29.901 in order to be able to survive. 00:15:29.901 --> 00:15:33.367 So, as a result, he enrolled us in high school, 00:15:33.367 --> 00:15:36.634 which we called gymnasium, 00:15:36.634 --> 00:15:39.267 where we were getting 00:15:39.267 --> 00:15:43.467 all preparatory courses for university, 00:15:43.467 --> 00:15:47.067 but also we were learning style. 00:15:47.067 --> 00:15:51.000 And he was planning that, when we finished high school, 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:57.934 we would go to Paris to study couturier and styling 00:15:57.934 --> 00:16:01.267 in order to have something in our hands. 00:16:01.267 --> 00:16:05.701 And that one year of working in that school 00:16:05.701 --> 00:16:08.634 and learning something about sewing 00:16:08.634 --> 00:16:12.067 came extremely handy in the camps 00:16:12.067 --> 00:16:16.067 because, while we were incarcerated, 00:16:16.067 --> 00:16:18.901 we all had only one set of clothing. 00:16:18.901 --> 00:16:20.534 And the clothing would tear. 00:16:20.534 --> 00:16:23.400 And if somebody had an extra blouse or what -- 00:16:23.400 --> 00:16:27.133 And I was able, obviously by hand-sewing 00:16:27.133 --> 00:16:30.000 because we didn't have any sewing machines, 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.067 to do the work and earn, like, a little -- 00:16:34.067 --> 00:16:37.634 another slice of bread for doing a repair, 00:16:37.634 --> 00:16:41.200 which meant a lot when you're getting one slice a day -- 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:43.300 one slice of bread a day. 00:16:43.300 --> 00:16:45.467 To be able to get another slice of bread 00:16:45.467 --> 00:16:47.767 was quite an achievement. 00:16:47.767 --> 00:16:49.367 -Yeah. Yeah. 00:16:49.367 --> 00:16:53.701 Now, actually, we have a question on our computer here 00:16:53.701 --> 00:16:54.901 from North Platte High School, 00:16:54.901 --> 00:16:56.434 and I think this kind of relates to, 00:16:56.434 --> 00:16:59.300 you know, when we're talking. 00:16:59.300 --> 00:17:02.167 They're asking, was your hometown, you know -- 00:17:02.167 --> 00:17:04.801 Was Krakow broken up? Was there a ghetto? 00:17:04.801 --> 00:17:07.334 And did you -- 00:17:07.334 --> 00:17:09.267 Were you taken away there to the ghetto 00:17:09.267 --> 00:17:11.367 at some point in Krakow?" 00:17:11.367 --> 00:17:15.400 -Now, you know, the Nazis were very, very clever. 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.167 They never did anything drastically instantly. 00:17:19.167 --> 00:17:22.000 They would do things in a very progressive way, 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.033 in a very fast speed, 00:17:25.033 --> 00:17:28.834 but still it was very gradual. 00:17:28.834 --> 00:17:30.234 They would take us -- 00:17:30.234 --> 00:17:32.968 First of all, they closed all the banks 00:17:32.968 --> 00:17:34.734 and all the schools. 00:17:34.734 --> 00:17:37.100 So we had no access to our money 00:17:37.100 --> 00:17:41.601 because before the war, nobody kept money at home. 00:17:41.601 --> 00:17:46.968 Some people kept gold and kept diamonds and valuable things, 00:17:46.968 --> 00:17:49.667 and they did keep at home with the thought that, 00:17:49.667 --> 00:17:54.467 "If need be, we will sell it, and we'll have something." 00:17:54.467 --> 00:17:56.434 As a matter of fact, my mother sewed -- 00:17:56.434 --> 00:18:01.267 in the border of our coats, she sewed in some jewelry. 00:18:01.267 --> 00:18:03.634 In case we are separated, 00:18:03.634 --> 00:18:06.267 we should be able to pull it out and sell it, 00:18:06.267 --> 00:18:10.200 and gold was at such a tremendous price 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.033 that later on during the war, 00:18:12.033 --> 00:18:17.501 she would have her gold crowns removed and sold it for gold 00:18:17.501 --> 00:18:21.901 because that would provide us with quite a few days of food. 00:18:21.901 --> 00:18:24.934 You know, it was amazing, the value of things. 00:18:24.934 --> 00:18:26.901 -Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 00:18:26.901 --> 00:18:33.167 -So then Krakow, as such, was never, ever attacked 00:18:33.167 --> 00:18:35.634 and never suffered any damage. 00:18:35.634 --> 00:18:39.367 Not a stone was turned for centuries, 00:18:39.367 --> 00:18:46.200 and everybody believed, because it was kind of a nest 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:52.934 of the most religious Christian people, Catholics, 00:18:52.934 --> 00:18:57.133 and they always felt that it was protected by God. 00:18:57.133 --> 00:18:59.767 When go through Krakow, on one street, 00:18:59.767 --> 00:19:02.000 you can hit five, six churches 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.868 from every century since 13th century on, 00:19:06.868 --> 00:19:09.200 of every architecture that you can dream of 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.234 during the centuries. 00:19:11.234 --> 00:19:16.467 And they always believed that this is what protecting Krakow. 00:19:16.467 --> 00:19:18.000 -And then what happened after -- 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.868 -And then what happened was 00:19:19.868 --> 00:19:22.734 that at first they started 00:19:22.734 --> 00:19:26.667 by saying that our apartments were too big 00:19:26.667 --> 00:19:29.400 and they were taking away our belongings. 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.501 And one day, they came to our house, 00:19:32.501 --> 00:19:36.167 and by then, we were living two families in our apartment 00:19:36.167 --> 00:19:39.434 because my aunt, who'd had two sons and a husband, 00:19:39.434 --> 00:19:43.567 came over from the western Poland. 00:19:43.567 --> 00:19:49.067 And they were coming to take our belongings, our furniture, 00:19:49.067 --> 00:19:53.033 because they were furnishing apartments for the SS people, 00:19:53.033 --> 00:19:54.601 for the Nazis. 00:19:54.601 --> 00:19:58.167 And we had a very big grand piano. 00:19:58.167 --> 00:20:03.000 So, the man, the German, the Nazi, turned around. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.634 and says, "Who plays the piano?" 00:20:04.634 --> 00:20:07.534 And we pointed to my cousin who was -- 00:20:07.534 --> 00:20:11.033 We all played the piano, but he was the best pianist among us. 00:20:11.033 --> 00:20:14.167 He was the oldest, and he played and sang for them. 00:20:14.167 --> 00:20:16.133 At that point, they turned around, and they said, 00:20:16.133 --> 00:20:18.234 "No, he plays too well. 00:20:18.234 --> 00:20:19.834 We're not going to take it away." 00:20:19.834 --> 00:20:20.968 -Wow. Wow. 00:20:20.968 --> 00:20:24.267 -But that was a very, very rare occurrence. 00:20:24.267 --> 00:20:25.901 But that was -- 00:20:25.901 --> 00:20:31.601 But it was not a long after the war started, not even a year, 00:20:31.601 --> 00:20:32.901 where they said that, 00:20:32.901 --> 00:20:35.334 "All the Jews have to leave the city." 00:20:35.334 --> 00:20:38.801 And we have to live and go to the suburbs. 00:20:38.801 --> 00:20:40.834 When you think about suburbs here, 00:20:40.834 --> 00:20:43.067 it's a very desirable place, 00:20:43.067 --> 00:20:45.968 but when you talk about suburbs in Poland, 00:20:45.968 --> 00:20:50.734 they were just villages because as far as the streetcar went, 00:20:50.734 --> 00:20:52.300 there was still a city. 00:20:52.300 --> 00:20:54.400 Where the streetcar ended, nobody -- 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.100 There were very few cars, 00:20:56.100 --> 00:20:59.133 and people didn't have cars like they do today. 00:20:59.133 --> 00:21:04.567 So, these suburbs, so called, were just villages 00:21:04.567 --> 00:21:08.634 with outhouses and outside water wells, 00:21:08.634 --> 00:21:10.601 you know, completely primitive life, 00:21:10.601 --> 00:21:13.067 and we had to move out there, 00:21:13.067 --> 00:21:15.901 which made it very, very difficult for us 00:21:15.901 --> 00:21:21.200 because the houses over there or the apartments were very tiny. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.267 And the people were assigned, a Jewish family, into one room, 00:21:25.267 --> 00:21:27.000 a whole family, 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.434 and the other people only had two rooms to their name. 00:21:30.434 --> 00:21:33.367 So, one of the rooms was taken, 00:21:33.367 --> 00:21:37.033 so we were not really received very well. 00:21:37.033 --> 00:21:41.667 And also, the family was spread all around a city 00:21:41.667 --> 00:21:43.934 into different places, 00:21:43.934 --> 00:21:46.767 and the transportation was forbidden. 00:21:46.767 --> 00:21:49.400 We could not take a streetcar. 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.501 Obviously there were no cars. 00:21:51.501 --> 00:21:55.067 So we kind of lost track of each other, 00:21:55.067 --> 00:21:58.734 and it was very difficult to live like that 00:21:58.734 --> 00:22:01.501 because we were completely, 00:22:01.501 --> 00:22:04.901 you know, unable to make a living. 00:22:04.901 --> 00:22:08.901 What I did, because I was always very handy, 00:22:08.901 --> 00:22:12.167 I learned how to do beadwork, 00:22:12.167 --> 00:22:16.901 and I would make necklaces and pins 00:22:16.901 --> 00:22:19.567 and decoration for dresses, 00:22:19.567 --> 00:22:22.701 and that's how I was helping the family. 00:22:22.701 --> 00:22:24.701 I also did knitting, 00:22:24.701 --> 00:22:27.033 where people would have two old sweaters 00:22:27.033 --> 00:22:28.667 that were falling apart, 00:22:28.667 --> 00:22:33.167 and I would combine it into a design of two different colors. 00:22:33.167 --> 00:22:37.601 And so, you know, you resorted to everything possible, 00:22:37.601 --> 00:22:40.801 and that kept you busy, which was very good, too. 00:22:40.801 --> 00:22:42.634 -I want to give a school a shout-out, 00:22:42.634 --> 00:22:44.367 but I'm trying to find it in all the questions, 00:22:44.367 --> 00:22:45.701 but I think someone was asking -- 00:22:45.701 --> 00:22:47.434 And you've touched on it a little bit. 00:22:47.434 --> 00:22:52.133 I think this was from the Sierra Vista, Arizona, school, 00:22:52.133 --> 00:22:53.467 Mrs. Reddix's class. 00:22:53.467 --> 00:22:56.634 But I think they were wondering what life was like 00:22:56.634 --> 00:22:58.267 kind of in the ghetto? 00:22:58.267 --> 00:22:59.901 Was there employment? 00:22:59.901 --> 00:23:01.634 Was there enough food, enough water? 00:23:01.634 --> 00:23:03.367 You know, when they learn, 00:23:03.367 --> 00:23:06.901 especially about, you know, ghettos in Poland, 00:23:06.901 --> 00:23:09.734 you know, and the conditions, was it difficult? 00:23:09.734 --> 00:23:12.501 -It was very, very difficult. 00:23:12.501 --> 00:23:15.767 However, when the ghetto was created 00:23:15.767 --> 00:23:17.901 we almost look forward to go there 00:23:17.901 --> 00:23:22.234 because what happened was we were together 00:23:22.234 --> 00:23:24.200 and would know what's going on in the world 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:28.767 because the radios were completely forbidden. 00:23:28.767 --> 00:23:31.067 There were no newspapers. 00:23:31.067 --> 00:23:33.634 Television didn't exist yet. 00:23:33.634 --> 00:23:38.200 Television was developed many, many years later in the States, 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:41.234 but we didn't even know that something like that was coming. 00:23:41.234 --> 00:23:42.400 -Yeah. 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.901 -So, we were living in complete isolation 00:23:44.901 --> 00:23:50.133 because we had no phones, no newspapers, no radio, 00:23:50.133 --> 00:23:55.834 and no personal communication because we were so separated. 00:23:55.834 --> 00:23:57.901 So, we looked forward to going to ghetto. 00:23:57.901 --> 00:24:00.934 However, when we got into ghetto, 00:24:00.934 --> 00:24:04.033 we were assigned in a two-room apartment. 00:24:04.033 --> 00:24:07.334 There was one family that was already living over there, 00:24:07.334 --> 00:24:08.667 of four people. 00:24:08.667 --> 00:24:11.200 Then we were -- Another four people assigned 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.434 to this two-room apartment. 00:24:13.434 --> 00:24:17.300 And then there was another woman with two daughters 00:24:17.300 --> 00:24:18.701 that was also assigned. 00:24:18.701 --> 00:24:22.167 And we all had to live in those quarters. 00:24:22.167 --> 00:24:25.167 But, you know, you adjusted to it. 00:24:25.167 --> 00:24:29.334 But at first we didn't have any employment. 00:24:29.334 --> 00:24:32.667 We kind of lived with whatever we could scrounge, 00:24:32.667 --> 00:24:36.567 and we had a Christian neighbor where we left our belongings 00:24:36.567 --> 00:24:38.334 because we couldn't take anything with us, 00:24:38.334 --> 00:24:40.300 as you can imagine. 00:24:40.300 --> 00:24:43.501 And she would go on the streetcar 00:24:43.501 --> 00:24:47.033 because the streetcar went through the ghetto streets. 00:24:47.033 --> 00:24:49.501 She would sell some of our possessions 00:24:49.501 --> 00:24:54.467 and throw to us the money passing through the ghettos 00:24:54.467 --> 00:24:58.901 so we would have money to buy a piece of bread or something. 00:24:58.901 --> 00:25:02.634 But she was several times caught and beaten, 00:25:02.634 --> 00:25:04.567 and it didn't stop her from coming. 00:25:04.567 --> 00:25:05.801 -Wow. That's amazing. 00:25:05.801 --> 00:25:07.801 -And this was a tremendous help to us. 00:25:07.801 --> 00:25:09.400 -Yeah. Yeah. 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:13.200 -And the conditions were... 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.634 -Ooh, uh-oh. -...very difficult. 00:25:14.634 --> 00:25:17.534 Oh, yeah. My computer went to sleep, but it's still live. 00:25:17.534 --> 00:25:21.133 There we go. Thank you. 00:25:21.133 --> 00:25:27.801 -So, we kind of work on the idea of going to ghetto, 00:25:27.801 --> 00:25:30.868 and everybody had to be assigned to work. 00:25:30.868 --> 00:25:35.000 I personally liked going to be assigned in the winter 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:36.667 to shoveling snow off the street 00:25:36.667 --> 00:25:40.100 because there were no snow plows, no cars, nothing. 00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:42.734 It was all done by hand, and I thought, you know, 00:25:42.734 --> 00:25:44.133 that was my good opportunity 00:25:44.133 --> 00:25:47.834 to spend the day outdoors, you know? 00:25:47.834 --> 00:25:49.400 -Yeah. -People considered 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.601 this to be very big humiliation. 00:25:51.601 --> 00:25:53.734 I considered this a privilege... -Yeah, get some fresh air. 00:25:53.734 --> 00:25:56.167 -...to be able to be in the fresh air 00:25:56.167 --> 00:25:58.434 and sometimes the sunshine. 00:25:58.434 --> 00:26:01.400 And you froze to death, but that's all right, you know? 00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.300 When you're young, it doesn't matter. 00:26:03.300 --> 00:26:08.467 -But then later on, we had to start getting jobs 00:26:08.467 --> 00:26:12.634 because the gossip came through the ghetto 00:26:12.634 --> 00:26:14.901 that if you would not have a job, 00:26:14.901 --> 00:26:18.467 they will take you for the extermination camps. 00:26:18.467 --> 00:26:22.801 And I got an assignment for a job in a brush factory, 00:26:22.801 --> 00:26:26.334 and I always felt somehow 00:26:26.334 --> 00:26:29.834 I had a drive to do everything perfect 00:26:29.834 --> 00:26:31.801 because it gave me the satisfaction 00:26:31.801 --> 00:26:35.067 and gave me the self-image that I am still worth something. 00:26:35.067 --> 00:26:37.601 -Mm-hmm. -It was not, you know, 00:26:37.601 --> 00:26:39.934 a collaboration with the Germans or anything, 00:26:39.934 --> 00:26:45.067 but making brushes anyhow wouldn't be collaboration. 00:26:45.067 --> 00:26:49.767 And one day, I decided that I'm going to get an assignment 00:26:49.767 --> 00:26:51.968 for my mother for work. 00:26:51.968 --> 00:26:55.067 I cannot quite figure out why I went. 00:26:55.067 --> 00:26:57.601 We had, like, called the Arbeitsamt, 00:26:57.601 --> 00:26:58.868 the employment office. 00:26:58.868 --> 00:27:02.567 I went apply for her job. 00:27:02.567 --> 00:27:06.200 I have no clue why she didn't go by herself. 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.634 -Yeah. 00:27:07.634 --> 00:27:13.200 -So, I come in, and the woman who was receiving me said, 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.400 "Yes, I'll --" She was a German woman. 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.767 She says, "I'll assign you a job 00:27:17.767 --> 00:27:21.234 if you knit a back to a sweater 00:27:21.234 --> 00:27:23.767 I'm making for my fiancé. 00:27:23.767 --> 00:27:28.100 It's his birthday, and I need it in 24 hours." 00:27:28.100 --> 00:27:30.067 So, I said, "All right. Sure." 00:27:30.067 --> 00:27:31.133 You never said no. 00:27:31.133 --> 00:27:33.300 -Yeah. -And she -- 00:27:33.300 --> 00:27:34.868 I knitted the sweater. 00:27:34.868 --> 00:27:37.434 I knitted it much smaller, put it in to water, 00:27:37.434 --> 00:27:41.133 stretched it twice the size and brought it the next morning, 00:27:41.133 --> 00:27:43.267 and she gave me an assignment for my mother 00:27:43.267 --> 00:27:44.901 to the brush factory. 00:27:44.901 --> 00:27:46.667 And that's what saved her life... 00:27:46.667 --> 00:27:48.901 -Wow. -...because then later on, 00:27:48.901 --> 00:27:50.834 not a long time after that, 00:27:50.834 --> 00:27:52.567 they were liquidating the ghetto 00:27:52.567 --> 00:27:55.567 and taking the people to the first camp, 00:27:55.567 --> 00:27:57.734 which was Plaszów concentration camp. 00:27:57.734 --> 00:28:01.667 That's the camp that was portrayed in "Schindler's List." 00:28:01.667 --> 00:28:05.501 And she was able to enter the camp. 00:28:05.501 --> 00:28:07.901 It sounds ridiculous when you think 00:28:07.901 --> 00:28:11.133 that this was an award to be able to enter the camp, 00:28:11.133 --> 00:28:13.200 but if you didn't enter the camp, 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.734 you were putting on a shooting range. 00:28:14.734 --> 00:28:17.834 So, there was no choice. 00:28:17.834 --> 00:28:20.868 And that's what saved her life at that time. 00:28:20.868 --> 00:28:22.667 -Mm-hmm. We had -- 00:28:22.667 --> 00:28:24.400 This kind of relates to what you were saying, 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:25.701 but we had a question. 00:28:25.701 --> 00:28:28.834 This is from Brookwood School in Thomasville, Georgia. 00:28:28.834 --> 00:28:30.767 I don't know if you guys are with us right now, 00:28:30.767 --> 00:28:33.534 but kind of like you said, you had an awareness 00:28:33.534 --> 00:28:36.601 that these concentration camps and death camps existed. 00:28:36.601 --> 00:28:39.067 They said, "In numerous accounts we have read, 00:28:39.067 --> 00:28:40.901 survivors have stated they had no knowledge 00:28:40.901 --> 00:28:42.234 of concentration camps." 00:28:42.234 --> 00:28:44.501 So, did you when you were in the ghetto? 00:28:44.501 --> 00:28:48.534 -We pretty much knew that they existed, 00:28:48.534 --> 00:28:53.334 but we were not aware exactly what was happening in them. 00:28:53.334 --> 00:28:55.334 And by the time we were in the ghetto, 00:28:55.334 --> 00:28:59.234 we were quite aware that there were concentration camps, 00:28:59.234 --> 00:29:02.234 and we were aware that the ghetto 00:29:02.234 --> 00:29:04.667 is not going to last forever. 00:29:04.667 --> 00:29:08.734 But, you know, don't forget, I was quite a little girl. 00:29:08.734 --> 00:29:12.534 When you think about 13, 14 years old -- 00:29:12.534 --> 00:29:15.367 a lot of the things that the adults knew, 00:29:15.367 --> 00:29:19.567 I didn't know about because they were trying to protect me, so... 00:29:19.567 --> 00:29:22.534 -Yeah. And speaking about actually being a teenager -- 00:29:22.534 --> 00:29:25.033 I don't know -- this question made me smile. 00:29:25.033 --> 00:29:28.067 This is from, I think, Ms. Maider's class. 00:29:28.067 --> 00:29:29.367 They want to know, did you have, like, 00:29:29.367 --> 00:29:31.367 a boyfriend or a significant other 00:29:31.367 --> 00:29:33.801 or, you know, friends that you grew up with that you -- 00:29:33.801 --> 00:29:39.067 -I was -- No, but I was 12 when the war ended, 00:29:39.067 --> 00:29:41.400 and I went to an all-girls school, 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.934 but in the ghetto, I had a lot of friends. 00:29:44.934 --> 00:29:48.801 And I usually had always male friends. 00:29:48.801 --> 00:29:51.968 But this strange happened, talking about friends, 00:29:51.968 --> 00:29:54.501 that I had befriended one boy 00:29:54.501 --> 00:29:57.334 who was working with me in the brush factory, 00:29:57.334 --> 00:29:59.701 and he was supplied with the parts 00:29:59.701 --> 00:30:01.968 that I needed to work with. 00:30:01.968 --> 00:30:03.901 And he was always very good to me 00:30:03.901 --> 00:30:06.968 and making sure that I got my supply 00:30:06.968 --> 00:30:12.367 because back then we were paid like a penny a piece. 00:30:12.367 --> 00:30:14.634 After a day's work, if I had enough money 00:30:14.634 --> 00:30:17.567 to buy a loaf of bread it was a lot. 00:30:17.567 --> 00:30:20.400 But the alternative wasn't so good, 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:23.734 so even that meant something. 00:30:23.734 --> 00:30:26.467 And then after the war, we lost track of each other. 00:30:26.467 --> 00:30:29.701 He always considered himself to be my boyfriend, 00:30:29.701 --> 00:30:32.133 and for 40 years, we were looking for each other, 00:30:32.133 --> 00:30:34.067 not knowing what happened. 00:30:34.067 --> 00:30:38.734 And then somebody from my temple was in Philippines 00:30:38.734 --> 00:30:40.901 and sat with a man from Australia, 00:30:40.901 --> 00:30:44.267 and he was telling them his life story and said, 00:30:44.267 --> 00:30:47.167 "You know, I had this girl, and I'm looking for her." 00:30:47.167 --> 00:30:50.634 -Oh, no way. -That's 40 years after the war. 00:30:50.634 --> 00:30:53.334 "Looking for her all over," and the woman said, 00:30:53.334 --> 00:30:58.100 "Oh, we have a woman from Kraków in our temple." 00:30:58.100 --> 00:31:00.834 And, you know, he looked at her as if, you know, 00:31:00.834 --> 00:31:03.968 "This one woman -- how could it be?" 00:31:03.968 --> 00:31:05.200 -Yeah, right. -So he started asking, 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.467 "Did she have blue eyes? Did she have a mother?" 00:31:07.467 --> 00:31:08.501 And she said, "Yes. 00:31:08.501 --> 00:31:10.300 So, he wrote the letter to me 00:31:10.300 --> 00:31:13.701 for her to deliver to see whether it's me. 00:31:13.701 --> 00:31:16.501 And then we found out each other, 00:31:16.501 --> 00:31:20.767 so he decided to send his son from Australia to New York 00:31:20.767 --> 00:31:23.467 to make sure that I turn out to be decent, 00:31:23.467 --> 00:31:24.901 that he was not going to be disappointed. 00:31:24.901 --> 00:31:26.634 -[ Laughing ] No! 00:31:26.634 --> 00:31:31.701 -And we maintained complete communication with him. 00:31:31.701 --> 00:31:33.400 I still am in touch with his wife. 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.400 He passed away already, 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:39.200 but we found each other 40 years later, 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.167 and we decided that every other year 00:31:41.167 --> 00:31:42.734 we'll meet either in Europe 00:31:42.734 --> 00:31:45.567 or they will come to America or to Australia. 00:31:45.567 --> 00:31:47.801 -Mm-hmm. Wow. 00:31:47.801 --> 00:31:49.501 -There was always something going on. 00:31:49.501 --> 00:31:51.000 -Yeah. 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:52.601 Well, that's a great story because I know a few students 00:31:52.601 --> 00:31:54.467 asked, like, "Did you keep in touch with anyone?" 00:31:54.467 --> 00:31:56.667 and that's an amazing story, yeah, right there. 00:31:56.667 --> 00:31:58.667 -Oh, yeah, I keep in touch with everybody. 00:31:58.667 --> 00:32:01.300 I have friends that were born across the street from me. 00:32:01.300 --> 00:32:04.801 -Yeah, that's -- Wow, that's wild. 00:32:04.801 --> 00:32:09.100 So after, you know, living in the ghetto 00:32:09.100 --> 00:32:11.767 for I'm not sure how long, when did -- 00:32:11.767 --> 00:32:15.100 You know, you said your mom went to the concentration camp. 00:32:15.100 --> 00:32:16.234 Did you go with her, or did your... 00:32:16.234 --> 00:32:17.234 -We went together. -...family split up? 00:32:17.234 --> 00:32:18.501 How did that happen? -Yes. 00:32:18.501 --> 00:32:22.334 What happened was that they took my father and my sister, 00:32:22.334 --> 00:32:28.734 and they were sent to a concentrat-- to a -- 00:32:28.734 --> 00:32:30.434 They were building some barracks. 00:32:30.434 --> 00:32:32.100 I don't exactly know. 00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:33.567 It was called [speaking German] 00:32:33.567 --> 00:32:34.934 "building of barracks," 00:32:34.934 --> 00:32:38.934 but I don't know exactly because I never saw them again 00:32:38.934 --> 00:32:40.601 once they took them out of the ghetto. 00:32:40.601 --> 00:32:43.868 And I stayed with my mother in the ghetto, 00:32:43.868 --> 00:32:47.000 and then they liquidated the ghetto. 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.667 And when they were liquidating the ghetto, they took us -- 00:32:50.667 --> 00:32:54.267 We were supposed to pack, each one, one valise 00:32:54.267 --> 00:32:56.801 and throw it out of the window into the courtyard, 00:32:56.801 --> 00:32:58.267 mark our name, 00:32:58.267 --> 00:33:00.601 and then we were marching from the ghetto 00:33:00.601 --> 00:33:02.968 to the [speaking indistinctly] 00:33:02.968 --> 00:33:07.400 -How far was it from -- -Probably about 2, 3 miles. 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.067 -Oh, okay. 00:33:09.067 --> 00:33:13.968 -You know, I'm very bad at estimating things like that. 00:33:13.968 --> 00:33:18.934 But what happened was that you have to have your papers, 00:33:18.934 --> 00:33:22.334 and in the papers there has to be a statement 00:33:22.334 --> 00:33:25.567 which said that you have a job. 00:33:25.567 --> 00:33:29.801 Without a job, you could not get into the camp. 00:33:29.801 --> 00:33:32.601 And we were walking. 00:33:32.601 --> 00:33:34.701 We were halfway down the road. 00:33:34.701 --> 00:33:38.767 And all of a sudden my mother looks into her pocketbook, 00:33:38.767 --> 00:33:43.234 and her passport, her working papers, are gone. 00:33:43.234 --> 00:33:46.634 -Oh, my gosh. -And we didn't know -- 00:33:46.634 --> 00:33:48.734 We knew this was certain death, 00:33:48.734 --> 00:33:50.601 and we didn't know what to do about it, 00:33:50.601 --> 00:33:54.801 so we started kind of staying back in order 00:33:54.801 --> 00:33:57.868 for the people to go through, hoping for a miracle, 00:33:57.868 --> 00:34:01.300 and all of a sudden we hear somebody yelling, 00:34:01.300 --> 00:34:03.000 "Mrs. Fuss, Mrs. Fuss." 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.634 That was my maiden name. 00:34:05.634 --> 00:34:07.801 It was a friend of mine 00:34:07.801 --> 00:34:10.667 who found her pocketbook on the ground 00:34:10.667 --> 00:34:14.667 and, being very nosy, looked in and saw her papers 00:34:14.667 --> 00:34:18.300 and decided that she would try to find her because she knew 00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:20.467 that this was a death sentence. 00:34:20.467 --> 00:34:24.901 And this girl lives now 2 blocks away from me in New York. 00:34:24.901 --> 00:34:26.400 -What?! Oh, that's crazy. 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:30.200 -And the funniest thing is, she didn't remember she did it. 00:34:30.200 --> 00:34:31.601 -Oh, my gosh. 00:34:31.601 --> 00:34:33.734 And, yeah, you know, the smallest act, 00:34:33.734 --> 00:34:35.901 what she maybe thought was insignificant in some way 00:34:35.901 --> 00:34:38.267 saved your mom, you know? 00:34:38.267 --> 00:34:40.300 -She knew it was significant... -Yeah. 00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:42.801 -...'cause she knew without this piece of paper, 00:34:42.801 --> 00:34:44.767 she couldn't get into the camp. -Mm-hmm. 00:34:44.767 --> 00:34:46.901 Wow. Well, we -- 00:34:46.901 --> 00:34:49.200 So, going into the camp, I think -- 00:34:49.200 --> 00:34:50.434 Let's see here. Sorry. 00:34:50.434 --> 00:34:53.000 I'm getting a lot of questions now. 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.234 This looks like Schulz Home School. 00:34:55.234 --> 00:34:56.400 They were asking -- 00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:58.000 So, you were saying you had to have a job? 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.167 You had to have a specific paper. 00:35:00.167 --> 00:35:02.534 So, what kind of jobs did you do, you know, 00:35:02.534 --> 00:35:04.234 in these camps generally?" 00:35:04.234 --> 00:35:06.567 -At first, I was -- 00:35:06.567 --> 00:35:09.534 In Prussia, I was working at the brush factory. 00:35:09.534 --> 00:35:12.234 As a matter of fact, I became so good 00:35:12.234 --> 00:35:15.968 that when the commandant of the camp 00:35:15.968 --> 00:35:18.767 needed brushes for his horses, 00:35:18.767 --> 00:35:20.200 they asked me to do it. 00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:22.033 And when I did it, 00:35:22.033 --> 00:35:25.267 they asked me to go to his house to deliver it. 00:35:25.267 --> 00:35:27.901 -Mm-hmm. -And I went to deliver it. 00:35:27.901 --> 00:35:32.534 And the cook, knowing that we are starving, 00:35:32.534 --> 00:35:35.434 gave me a package of raw meat, 00:35:35.434 --> 00:35:37.801 and I thought that was a great prize, 00:35:37.801 --> 00:35:40.934 so I stuck it, you know, into my dress. 00:35:40.934 --> 00:35:45.467 I had a dress with fitted waist, so I stuck it on my stomach, 00:35:45.467 --> 00:35:47.200 and I was going home. 00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:51.334 And all of a sudden he has the dogs, the Great Danes. 00:35:51.334 --> 00:35:52.767 -Oh, God. -And the Great Dane 00:35:52.767 --> 00:35:54.200 walked into the kitchen. 00:35:54.200 --> 00:35:56.868 I thought I will die because I feel 00:35:56.868 --> 00:35:58.834 with the raw meat on me he would -- 00:35:58.834 --> 00:36:01.467 But somehow he must have had better tidbits 00:36:01.467 --> 00:36:02.834 because he let me go, 00:36:02.834 --> 00:36:06.934 and I went to the barracks with the piece of raw meat. 00:36:06.934 --> 00:36:08.534 -Oh, my gosh. 00:36:08.534 --> 00:36:11.667 -I almost died, knowing what was happening. 00:36:11.667 --> 00:36:13.434 -Wow. Wow. That's crazy. 00:36:13.434 --> 00:36:14.834 -And then from there, 00:36:14.834 --> 00:36:18.734 they transported us to Skarzysko, 00:36:18.734 --> 00:36:20.834 which was an ammunition factory. 00:36:20.834 --> 00:36:24.033 As a matter of fact, there is a book written about it 00:36:24.033 --> 00:36:26.100 called "Death Comes in Yellow." 00:36:26.100 --> 00:36:32.033 It was about an ammunition factory where it's documented 00:36:32.033 --> 00:36:34.334 that the owners of the factory 00:36:34.334 --> 00:36:39.934 paid for each one of us certain amount of money 00:36:39.934 --> 00:36:42.701 in order to have the workers 00:36:42.701 --> 00:36:45.467 to work for them for nothing, obviously. 00:36:45.467 --> 00:36:48.634 And the conditions were atrocious. 00:36:48.634 --> 00:36:51.133 There was no food, 00:36:51.133 --> 00:36:57.734 and the quota that we had to produce was unbelievable. 00:36:57.734 --> 00:37:00.667 And also, one part of the factory 00:37:00.667 --> 00:37:02.767 produced underwater mines 00:37:02.767 --> 00:37:06.968 that were made from picric acid. 00:37:06.968 --> 00:37:09.901 That's the best translation that I know of. 00:37:09.901 --> 00:37:14.667 It was something very poisonous that turned your skin orange 00:37:14.667 --> 00:37:16.734 and your hair very orange. 00:37:16.734 --> 00:37:20.834 And you work there only for a very short time. 00:37:20.834 --> 00:37:23.267 Two months was the maximum, 00:37:23.267 --> 00:37:25.968 and your lungs would be attacked. 00:37:25.968 --> 00:37:32.300 And, you know, you develop bleeding of the lungs. 00:37:32.300 --> 00:37:35.334 So, at first, I was working in a much safer place, 00:37:35.334 --> 00:37:37.534 and then they assigned me over there. 00:37:37.534 --> 00:37:39.467 And I didn't get sick. 00:37:39.467 --> 00:37:42.534 And after 2 months, obviously, 00:37:42.534 --> 00:37:45.100 they took me into the infirmary 00:37:45.100 --> 00:37:48.801 which normally would have meant the end of it. 00:37:48.801 --> 00:37:50.467 but it was toward the end 00:37:50.467 --> 00:37:56.434 as the Russian forces were entering Eastern Poland. 00:37:56.434 --> 00:38:02.601 And somebody who was the biggest henchman in the camp 00:38:02.601 --> 00:38:04.367 saved my life. 00:38:04.367 --> 00:38:06.634 For some reason, they always called me 00:38:06.634 --> 00:38:09.467 "de Kleiner," the little one, because I was -- 00:38:09.467 --> 00:38:11.834 At that time, I was about 14 years old, 00:38:11.834 --> 00:38:13.968 and I was always quite short, 00:38:13.968 --> 00:38:17.467 so I looked even much younger than my age. 00:38:17.467 --> 00:38:21.534 And as they were coming to take everybody 00:38:21.534 --> 00:38:24.868 because they would not take anybody sick to Germany 00:38:24.868 --> 00:38:30.200 because they were preparing to transport us to Germany, 00:38:30.200 --> 00:38:33.167 he took me in my nightgown, threw me through the backdoor, 00:38:33.167 --> 00:38:35.834 and said, "Run away." 00:38:35.834 --> 00:38:38.334 And I did run away. 00:38:38.334 --> 00:38:41.734 And they did ship us from that factory then 00:38:41.734 --> 00:38:46.367 to Leipzig to the same HASAG factory. 00:38:46.367 --> 00:38:48.467 The same people owned it, 00:38:48.467 --> 00:38:51.033 and we were the best working force 00:38:51.033 --> 00:38:56.167 because, first of all, our quota of production 00:38:56.167 --> 00:38:58.801 was something -- 00:38:58.801 --> 00:39:00.868 five times what the people 00:39:00.868 --> 00:39:03.000 who were working there before had. 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.801 And they would work in two-hour slips 00:39:05.801 --> 00:39:08.467 and would get milk in order to protect the lungs. 00:39:08.467 --> 00:39:12.334 We got 10 hours straight and no food. 00:39:12.334 --> 00:39:15.367 -Yeah. -So, that was -- 00:39:15.367 --> 00:39:16.634 They didn't have to house us. 00:39:16.634 --> 00:39:18.133 They didn't have to dress us. 00:39:18.133 --> 00:39:19.934 They didn't have to feed us. 00:39:19.934 --> 00:39:22.767 So that was a great workforce. 00:39:22.767 --> 00:39:24.667 And once we got to Germany 00:39:24.667 --> 00:39:29.968 we were sent to work with the metal works. 00:39:29.968 --> 00:39:33.234 So, that was already, you know, contamination. 00:39:33.234 --> 00:39:35.100 And we were very lucky 00:39:35.100 --> 00:39:37.367 because when we arrived there, 00:39:37.367 --> 00:39:41.701 they took all our clothes away -- not all our clothes. 00:39:41.701 --> 00:39:43.367 -We only had one change of clothing, 00:39:43.367 --> 00:39:45.234 but the private clothes. 00:39:45.234 --> 00:39:46.701 And I was issued the prison dress. 00:39:46.701 --> 00:39:47.767 -Oh, yeah, let's show this 00:39:47.767 --> 00:39:49.434 because I know there were some students 00:39:49.434 --> 00:39:50.701 that asked if you kept anything. 00:39:50.701 --> 00:39:52.434 Oh, bring it over that way. There you go. 00:39:52.434 --> 00:39:54.701 -This prison dress, 00:39:54.701 --> 00:39:56.901 and you see there is a number here... 00:39:56.901 --> 00:39:58.534 -Let's see, on this side. -...on this side. 00:39:58.534 --> 00:40:01.400 -Yeah, there we go. -There is a number here 00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.534 that I embroidered because I wanted to make sure -- 00:40:05.534 --> 00:40:07.467 because we were called by numbers. 00:40:07.467 --> 00:40:12.000 And when we came across the assessment, 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.400 they didn't ask our name. 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:14.934 We had to tell them our number, 00:40:14.934 --> 00:40:17.534 and I wanted to make sure that this was neat. 00:40:17.534 --> 00:40:21.868 I always felt if I kept neat, if I kept my hair combed, 00:40:21.868 --> 00:40:25.534 it kind of would keep me alive 00:40:25.534 --> 00:40:30.734 because otherwise, you know, what would you -- 00:40:30.734 --> 00:40:35.701 You know, once you let yourself go, it was all over. 00:40:35.701 --> 00:40:38.367 -Yeah. Yeah. -So I wanted to -- 00:40:38.367 --> 00:40:43.067 I got a piece of a scrap 00:40:43.067 --> 00:40:45.901 from the machines 00:40:45.901 --> 00:40:47.234 and made the belt of it, 00:40:47.234 --> 00:40:49.067 and I embroidered the number, 00:40:49.067 --> 00:40:51.567 and I felt that I'm looking decent... 00:40:51.567 --> 00:40:52.667 -Mm-hmm. 00:40:52.667 --> 00:40:55.067 -...because that gave us 00:40:55.067 --> 00:40:58.834 some kind of a human dimension. 00:40:58.834 --> 00:40:59.834 -Mm-hmm. 00:40:59.834 --> 00:41:01.467 -We weren't treated like humans, 00:41:01.467 --> 00:41:05.200 so we were fighting to feel like humans. 00:41:05.200 --> 00:41:08.133 -Now, there -- I think in every student question -- 00:41:08.133 --> 00:41:11.267 you know, every class that e-mailed us with questions -- 00:41:11.267 --> 00:41:13.801 And actually I know we've got a few from Haynes Academy. 00:41:13.801 --> 00:41:15.868 Shout-out to you guys in New Orleans. 00:41:15.868 --> 00:41:18.100 You were talking about, you know, 00:41:18.100 --> 00:41:19.767 dressing nice was, like, kind of -- 00:41:19.767 --> 00:41:21.901 you know, as nice as you possibly could, you know, 00:41:21.901 --> 00:41:25.033 and keeping appearances was one way that you survived. 00:41:25.033 --> 00:41:26.200 Can you tell them -- 00:41:26.200 --> 00:41:27.534 You know, a lot of students wonder, like, 00:41:27.534 --> 00:41:30.501 how did you make it through or how did you survive? 00:41:30.501 --> 00:41:32.067 Were you telling yourself something? 00:41:32.067 --> 00:41:36.567 Were you doing something to get through it every single day? 00:41:36.567 --> 00:41:38.667 -You know, it's very interesting. 00:41:38.667 --> 00:41:43.234 I cannot imagine my mother going through it. 00:41:43.234 --> 00:41:46.901 Having children now myself, 00:41:46.901 --> 00:41:49.868 whatever you suffer yourself is nothing, 00:41:49.868 --> 00:41:52.067 but when you look at your children suffering -- 00:41:52.067 --> 00:41:53.868 And this was also another thing, 00:41:53.868 --> 00:41:57.868 that I wanted my mother to feel a little better. 00:41:57.868 --> 00:42:01.400 If she saw that my spirit was up, she could -- 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:03.601 We were never separated. 00:42:03.601 --> 00:42:06.200 We were always together the entire war, 00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:09.467 which was very, very fortunate and very rare. 00:42:09.467 --> 00:42:12.934 -Mm-hmm. -And I felt that if I appeared 00:42:12.934 --> 00:42:18.167 to look decent and I kept my spirit, 00:42:18.167 --> 00:42:21.234 it would give her some relief. 00:42:21.234 --> 00:42:23.567 And it did, you know? 00:42:23.567 --> 00:42:28.934 But as a young girl, you feel just indestructible. 00:42:28.934 --> 00:42:34.000 I never believed that I will perish. 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.634 I felt, "I'm going to live," 00:42:36.634 --> 00:42:40.067 you know, to the degree where at one time there was -- 00:42:40.067 --> 00:42:44.400 during the High Holidays, they came. 00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:50.267 We were forbidden to pray, to have anything religious, 00:42:50.267 --> 00:42:52.834 and there was a group of orthodox people 00:42:52.834 --> 00:42:56.300 who decided that they're going to pray no matter what. 00:42:56.300 --> 00:42:58.701 And the Germans spotted it and they came in 00:42:58.701 --> 00:43:01.400 and they selected a number of people 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.400 and they were shooting them and beating them. 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:08.467 And I was sitting at my bench working, 00:43:08.467 --> 00:43:10.067 and as they were walking out, 00:43:10.067 --> 00:43:13.434 the man who did the most shootings stood behind me, 00:43:13.434 --> 00:43:16.000 and you were not allowed to even turn your head. 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:21.000 You had to work like nothing was happening the entire time. 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.601 And then I heard a click, 00:43:23.601 --> 00:43:26.334 and I thought he pulled out a cigarette to light 00:43:26.334 --> 00:43:28.601 and was shutting the case 00:43:28.601 --> 00:43:32.334 'cause they all had silver cigarette cases. 00:43:32.334 --> 00:43:34.167 This doesn't exist here, I think, now. 00:43:34.167 --> 00:43:35.501 -Yeah, yeah. 00:43:35.501 --> 00:43:38.934 -But they always counted the cigarettes in the cases. 00:43:38.934 --> 00:43:43.367 What showed he up -- he didn't have a cigarette case. 00:43:43.367 --> 00:43:47.267 He had a gun to my head, and he pulled the trigger. 00:43:47.267 --> 00:43:52.133 And there was no bullet, so he looked around. 00:43:52.133 --> 00:43:54.033 And I admired my mother. 00:43:54.033 --> 00:43:56.601 In all that, she was sitting over at that end 00:43:56.601 --> 00:43:58.167 of the room looking at it. 00:43:58.167 --> 00:43:59.934 She was as white as a ghost. 00:43:59.934 --> 00:44:03.567 She never said one word because he was looking around, 00:44:03.567 --> 00:44:06.434 if my life mattered anything to anybody, 00:44:06.434 --> 00:44:08.734 since nobody responded, nobody cared. 00:44:08.734 --> 00:44:13.033 He didn't feel like reloading the gun and walked out. 00:44:13.033 --> 00:44:16.634 -Oh, my gosh. -So, you know, you never knew -- 00:44:16.634 --> 00:44:19.267 You can't say that you did anything to save you, 00:44:19.267 --> 00:44:21.567 I thought, because it was so unpredictable, 00:44:21.567 --> 00:44:24.334 you wouldn't know. -Yeah. Yeah. 00:44:24.334 --> 00:44:27.968 That's -- Gosh, that's just a crazy story. 00:44:27.968 --> 00:44:29.701 -Yeah. -Let's see here. 00:44:29.701 --> 00:44:31.601 We've got a question 00:44:31.601 --> 00:44:33.300 from Saint George's seventh-grade class. 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:34.667 They were wondering -- 00:44:34.667 --> 00:44:36.634 and they've probably learned about this in their class. 00:44:36.634 --> 00:44:38.567 So, you had a number on your uniform. 00:44:38.567 --> 00:44:40.100 Were you ever tattooed with that number? 00:44:40.100 --> 00:44:42.300 -No, because only Auschwitz 00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:46.834 and some of the bigger extermination camps 00:44:46.834 --> 00:44:48.200 did the tattooing. 00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:51.100 I can't quite figure out, why were they tattooing people 00:44:51.100 --> 00:44:53.934 when they were sending them to the ovens or be shot. 00:44:53.934 --> 00:44:56.367 But that was their logic. 00:44:56.367 --> 00:45:00.901 But since I went the labor-camp route, 00:45:00.901 --> 00:45:03.801 we were not tattooed. 00:45:03.801 --> 00:45:05.167 -Early on, I got a question 00:45:05.167 --> 00:45:08.067 about how you were liberated and how old were you. 00:45:08.067 --> 00:45:09.634 Let's see here. 00:45:09.634 --> 00:45:10.734 I'm trying to find their question, 00:45:10.734 --> 00:45:12.033 but it's up here somewhere, 00:45:12.033 --> 00:45:13.467 so I can give you a shout-out out there. 00:45:13.467 --> 00:45:16.467 -Yes, that was a very good one 00:45:16.467 --> 00:45:21.167 because when the war was ending, we were in Leipzig, 00:45:21.167 --> 00:45:25.300 and the overseers 00:45:25.300 --> 00:45:28.234 didn't want to go to the front, 00:45:28.234 --> 00:45:33.400 so they all gathered us into what they called a death march. 00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:37.000 We were marching 24 hours a day. 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.868 Every now and then, they would let us stop for a little while. 00:45:39.868 --> 00:45:41.567 We were outdoors the whole time. 00:45:41.567 --> 00:45:43.400 There were thousands of people. 00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:48.501 You probably saw some films of people marching, 00:45:48.501 --> 00:45:50.467 and they gave us no food. 00:45:50.467 --> 00:45:52.701 We were marching for three weeks. 00:45:52.701 --> 00:45:54.234 And then it showed up -- 00:45:54.234 --> 00:45:56.100 I looked at the map after the war -- 00:45:56.100 --> 00:45:58.567 that we were just going in circles. 00:45:58.567 --> 00:46:00.234 And then one day, 00:46:00.234 --> 00:46:04.200 they divided us into groups of 300 women, 00:46:04.200 --> 00:46:06.968 and they put us into a barn for the night. 00:46:06.968 --> 00:46:08.667 That was the first night 00:46:08.667 --> 00:46:11.934 that we could just rest the whole night. 00:46:11.934 --> 00:46:17.033 And in the morning we opened the barn door, 00:46:17.033 --> 00:46:21.067 and a pile of German uniforms were laying there. 00:46:21.067 --> 00:46:24.701 They evidently escaped and left us there. 00:46:24.701 --> 00:46:28.667 And the foreman of the estate 00:46:28.667 --> 00:46:32.200 came in and said, "Look, I'm only a farmer. 00:46:32.200 --> 00:46:34.701 We have no food for 300 people, 00:46:34.701 --> 00:46:39.834 but if you give us few people, we have months of potatoes 00:46:39.834 --> 00:46:41.367 that were stored for the winter." 00:46:41.367 --> 00:46:42.934 That was made by them. 00:46:42.934 --> 00:46:45.300 This was near Leipzig. 00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:48.267 "Then you can cook soup. 00:46:48.267 --> 00:46:51.400 I'll have a little milk to put to the water with the potatoes, 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:52.901 and then you all have --" 00:46:52.901 --> 00:46:56.167 And that was our saving because after starving so long, 00:46:56.167 --> 00:47:00.167 people who are in camps where the armies walked in -- 00:47:00.167 --> 00:47:03.100 And the soldiers meant well and gave people food. 00:47:03.100 --> 00:47:06.934 A lot of people died because they couldn't tolerate the food. 00:47:06.934 --> 00:47:10.434 But we were safe because -- 00:47:10.434 --> 00:47:13.501 But then we found out that we were in no-man's-land, 00:47:13.501 --> 00:47:16.968 which means, when two countries come together, 00:47:16.968 --> 00:47:22.067 there is a strip in between that doesn't belong to anybody. 00:47:22.067 --> 00:47:26.067 And we were in between the British and Russian fronts. 00:47:26.067 --> 00:47:31.300 So, we stayed in that barn for a few days. 00:47:31.300 --> 00:47:35.734 And all of a sudden, two Russian soldiers came on a motorcycle, 00:47:35.734 --> 00:47:38.601 and one of them got to the mayor of town, 00:47:38.601 --> 00:47:41.367 pulled down to him, and said, 00:47:41.367 --> 00:47:44.100 "I want those women in private homes. 00:47:44.100 --> 00:47:48.534 Everybody in town has to take a few people in order for them 00:47:48.534 --> 00:47:50.834 not to live like that, to be -- 00:47:50.834 --> 00:47:54.601 So they took us in, and as a matter of fact, 00:47:54.601 --> 00:48:01.167 somebody found some German Nazi insignia on that farm. 00:48:01.167 --> 00:48:04.267 But we were very comfortably over there. 00:48:04.267 --> 00:48:08.834 Obviously, no newspaper, no radio, no news from anything, 00:48:08.834 --> 00:48:11.934 but we couldn't care less because for the first time 00:48:11.934 --> 00:48:13.367 we slept on the bed. 00:48:13.367 --> 00:48:16.067 As a matter of fact, the first night we slept on the floor 00:48:16.067 --> 00:48:19.367 because the beds were too soft for us. 00:48:19.367 --> 00:48:26.033 And every few days, somebody would go to an adjoining town 00:48:26.033 --> 00:48:28.767 where there was a bakery and bring bread. 00:48:28.767 --> 00:48:30.834 And one day I went with my friend, 00:48:30.834 --> 00:48:33.601 which I was with the entire war, 00:48:33.601 --> 00:48:36.667 to pick up the bread from the other town. 00:48:36.667 --> 00:48:41.167 And a Russian soldier on the way met us and said, 00:48:41.167 --> 00:48:44.400 "How come you're wearing your prison dresses?" 00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.501 So, we said, "What do you mean? We don't have anything else. 00:48:47.501 --> 00:48:49.000 All we have is this one dress." 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:50.701 He said, "Didn't you hear? 00:48:50.701 --> 00:48:53.334 The war is over for five days already." 00:48:53.334 --> 00:48:56.300 We had no idea. -Wow. 00:48:56.300 --> 00:48:59.367 -And then we dropped everything. 00:48:59.367 --> 00:49:03.501 We ran back to town to tell everybody the war was over, 00:49:03.501 --> 00:49:06.901 but we still had nowhere to go. 00:49:06.901 --> 00:49:08.934 But the Russians would come 00:49:08.934 --> 00:49:13.334 and the commandant of the Russian army of the area 00:49:13.334 --> 00:49:16.200 came in, and he wanted to have a good time. 00:49:16.200 --> 00:49:18.767 He saw young girls, so he -- 00:49:18.767 --> 00:49:21.968 So, I decided I have to be very, very careful 00:49:21.968 --> 00:49:23.734 because they were always -- 00:49:23.734 --> 00:49:26.868 there was a lot of rape going on at that time. 00:49:26.868 --> 00:49:29.267 And he was -- 00:49:29.267 --> 00:49:34.100 I said, "I'll play along because he has the arms," you know? 00:49:34.100 --> 00:49:38.133 -Yeah. Right. -So, I got him very drunk, 00:49:38.133 --> 00:49:39.534 and he finally -- 00:49:39.534 --> 00:49:42.367 There was some woman who to me looked like an old woman. 00:49:42.367 --> 00:49:44.167 She was probably 25. 00:49:44.167 --> 00:49:46.067 Because he brought a big diamond 00:49:46.067 --> 00:49:49.033 to give whoever will sleep with him. 00:49:49.033 --> 00:49:51.267 And he slept with her. 00:49:51.267 --> 00:49:54.634 And that was over that evening. 00:49:54.634 --> 00:49:58.801 But the next morning, a Jewish doctor from the army, 00:49:58.801 --> 00:50:00.701 from the Russian army, came 00:50:00.701 --> 00:50:02.400 and brought two valises, 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.033 one for my mother, one for me, 00:50:04.033 --> 00:50:06.868 and said, "You better run away right away 00:50:06.868 --> 00:50:09.767 because he realizes what you have done, 00:50:09.767 --> 00:50:14.901 and he's coming tonight to play with vengeance." 00:50:14.901 --> 00:50:16.801 So, we left right away, 00:50:16.801 --> 00:50:20.334 and we immediately headed for Kraków 00:50:20.334 --> 00:50:23.634 because being that the family was out from there 00:50:23.634 --> 00:50:26.133 that's where we will find everybody. 00:50:26.133 --> 00:50:29.801 So, then we landed on platforms 00:50:29.801 --> 00:50:34.267 to go back home. 00:50:34.267 --> 00:50:37.334 There were transports, military transports 00:50:37.334 --> 00:50:43.200 that were carrying people back to Poland, 00:50:43.200 --> 00:50:45.367 to Russia on that train, 00:50:45.367 --> 00:50:48.901 and every few stations we had to change 00:50:48.901 --> 00:50:50.400 because they needed this train, 00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:53.200 that train, so it took us a week... 00:50:53.200 --> 00:50:54.901 -Wow. Yeah. 00:50:54.901 --> 00:50:58.567 -...for a trip that probably takes about 7, 8 hours. 00:50:58.567 --> 00:51:00.567 And we finally wound up in Kraków 00:51:00.567 --> 00:51:04.434 and came to the building, to our house. 00:51:04.434 --> 00:51:09.067 And we decided to wait there to see if anybody survived. 00:51:09.067 --> 00:51:10.834 -So, was someone else living there? 00:51:10.834 --> 00:51:12.434 You know, sometimes that happened. 00:51:12.434 --> 00:51:13.701 -It was very interesting 00:51:13.701 --> 00:51:15.567 because when we had to leave Kraków, 00:51:15.567 --> 00:51:19.234 we gave our apartment to our tenant's niece 00:51:19.234 --> 00:51:21.434 because she had no work. 00:51:21.434 --> 00:51:25.968 She came from Western Poland and had nowhere to live. 00:51:25.968 --> 00:51:28.901 And when we came, she says she won't live with strangers, 00:51:28.901 --> 00:51:30.367 wouldn't let us in. 00:51:30.367 --> 00:51:34.434 We still could see our furniture inside, but she wouldn't us in. 00:51:34.434 --> 00:51:37.300 But then another neighbor 00:51:37.300 --> 00:51:39.834 whom we didn't give anything, took us in. 00:51:39.834 --> 00:51:42.200 And then we got an assignment, 00:51:42.200 --> 00:51:47.567 and I immediately enrolled at the university 00:51:47.567 --> 00:51:51.801 because my mother felt that education is worth everything. 00:51:51.801 --> 00:51:56.300 -So, you were 18 at that time? -I was 18 at the time, yes. 00:51:56.300 --> 00:52:00.300 And what they did, which was very nice -- 00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:03.167 they gave us a year at the university 00:52:03.167 --> 00:52:05.501 to make high school equivalency, 00:52:05.501 --> 00:52:07.934 So, as a result I wound up getting 00:52:07.934 --> 00:52:10.534 my high-school equivalency 00:52:10.534 --> 00:52:12.868 and finishing my college at the time 00:52:12.868 --> 00:52:16.167 that I normally would have graduated from college. 00:52:16.167 --> 00:52:17.334 -Wow. 00:52:17.334 --> 00:52:19.734 -And I think I might be the only one 00:52:19.734 --> 00:52:24.601 who has a doctorate without ever going to high school 00:52:24.601 --> 00:52:28.634 because I got an honorary doctorate 00:52:28.634 --> 00:52:30.834 from Seton Hall University 00:52:30.834 --> 00:52:34.100 for my work with the Christian world. 00:52:34.100 --> 00:52:35.501 -And let's actually talk about that. 00:52:35.501 --> 00:52:40.267 I mean, man, we could probably talk for another hour. 00:52:40.267 --> 00:52:43.067 And look -- it's already 12:55 our time. 00:52:43.067 --> 00:52:45.367 What I would love for you to do now -- 00:52:45.367 --> 00:52:46.667 if you wouldn't mind talking about, you know, 00:52:46.667 --> 00:52:48.868 when you came over to the States, 00:52:48.868 --> 00:52:51.100 your work with Sister Rose, 00:52:51.100 --> 00:52:53.400 your work to get this monument behind us, 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:55.501 you know, erected, 00:52:55.501 --> 00:52:58.501 and, you know, what you've been doing, 00:52:58.501 --> 00:53:00.968 you know, and spreading the message 00:53:00.968 --> 00:53:03.868 and spreading your message to school kids 00:53:03.868 --> 00:53:06.000 and everybody alike, you know? 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.434 -I decided when I came to the States 00:53:08.434 --> 00:53:10.834 and my life became much more normal 00:53:10.834 --> 00:53:14.901 that I'm going to have revenge on the Germans. 00:53:14.901 --> 00:53:17.067 And the only -- Actually, Nazis. 00:53:17.067 --> 00:53:18.334 I shouldn't say Germans 00:53:18.334 --> 00:53:21.033 because it's not right 00:53:21.033 --> 00:53:24.567 to make them all equal. 00:53:24.567 --> 00:53:27.601 And I think my revenge was 00:53:27.601 --> 00:53:30.234 that I was going to have a positive life 00:53:30.234 --> 00:53:32.801 and do something with the society 00:53:32.801 --> 00:53:35.300 that will make a difference, 00:53:35.300 --> 00:53:40.100 and I worked very closely with the Christian world 00:53:40.100 --> 00:53:44.033 because I feel that we need to work together 00:53:44.033 --> 00:53:46.067 to improve our relations 00:53:46.067 --> 00:53:51.801 and to prevent this kind of animosity building up. 00:53:51.801 --> 00:53:53.501 Actually, it's not an animosity -- 00:53:53.501 --> 00:53:55.901 a prejudice against one group. 00:53:55.901 --> 00:53:59.067 And we have done tremendous strides. 00:53:59.067 --> 00:54:03.701 I met Sister Rose, who was a very renowned nun 00:54:03.701 --> 00:54:05.501 who actually contributed 00:54:05.501 --> 00:54:09.901 toward the "Nostra aetate" edict, 00:54:09.901 --> 00:54:15.501 which in '64 was obviously in Vatican saying -- 00:54:15.501 --> 00:54:20.434 first of all, absolving Jews from the sin of killing Christ 00:54:20.434 --> 00:54:26.467 and also saying that we have to embrace each other 00:54:26.467 --> 00:54:28.534 and all the other nations. 00:54:28.534 --> 00:54:31.634 And it has been very rewarding. 00:54:31.634 --> 00:54:34.968 The response of the world is wonderful, 00:54:34.968 --> 00:54:36.801 and this what my work is. 00:54:36.801 --> 00:54:39.200 And I think that for the young people, 00:54:39.200 --> 00:54:42.968 they have to open up their eyes and arms to other races, 00:54:42.968 --> 00:54:45.167 to other religions, 00:54:45.167 --> 00:54:50.200 to other cultures, to see that we are all equal, 00:54:50.200 --> 00:54:53.234 that we all need to work with each other 00:54:53.234 --> 00:54:57.334 because that's the only way that this world will survive. 00:54:57.334 --> 00:54:58.634 -Yeah. 00:54:58.634 --> 00:55:01.334 Well, Luna, thank you for that wonderful message, 00:55:01.334 --> 00:55:03.434 and I'm looking here. 00:55:03.434 --> 00:55:05.300 We've still -- We've got a lot of questions 00:55:05.300 --> 00:55:06.467 and a lot of participants. 00:55:06.467 --> 00:55:07.734 Look at all that. 00:55:07.734 --> 00:55:09.367 Can you see all that, right there on this slide? 00:55:09.367 --> 00:55:10.634 Look at all those questions. 00:55:10.634 --> 00:55:12.801 Unfortunately, we can't answer all of them today, 00:55:12.801 --> 00:55:14.267 and I know we have to be kind of aware -- 00:55:14.267 --> 00:55:18.334 -Well, one question I'm very certain that I could -- 00:55:18.334 --> 00:55:20.100 Forgive. To forgive. 00:55:20.100 --> 00:55:21.734 -Oh, yeah, let's talk about that. 00:55:21.734 --> 00:55:24.067 Yeah. Have you been able to forgive? 00:55:24.067 --> 00:55:27.534 -You know, everybody asks me, "Do you hate the Germans?" 00:55:27.534 --> 00:55:32.801 And I said, "Hate doesn't take any space in my being 00:55:32.801 --> 00:55:35.033 because it would only spoil my life 00:55:35.033 --> 00:55:38.868 and the people I would hate wouldn't even know about it. 00:55:38.868 --> 00:55:42.934 And it would also hamper my doing the right things. 00:55:42.934 --> 00:55:46.000 So, this is something I read 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:50.334 in a cleaning store once, a little proverb -- 00:55:50.334 --> 00:55:52.167 "Hate is like an acid. 00:55:52.167 --> 00:55:55.167 It spoils the container and everything in it." 00:55:55.167 --> 00:55:56.834 And I refuse to be... 00:55:56.834 --> 00:55:58.868 -Yeah. A container for it. Yeah. 00:55:58.868 --> 00:56:01.467 -That's my closing for that. -I like that. 00:56:01.467 --> 00:56:02.734 I like that a lot. 00:56:02.734 --> 00:56:04.267 Well, as I said, we could probably talk 00:56:04.267 --> 00:56:06.868 for at least another hour, so I'm sorry we don't have that. 00:56:06.868 --> 00:56:09.567 I want to thank everybody for watching with us today, 00:56:09.567 --> 00:56:10.934 and I'm going to switch over -- 00:56:10.934 --> 00:56:13.467 You're going to see the room switch one more time. 00:56:13.467 --> 00:56:17.434 And if you want more of Luna, which I know you guys -- You do. 00:56:17.434 --> 00:56:19.400 So, when you're home tonight -- 00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:21.133 -- hopefully this will load up in one second -- 00:56:21.133 --> 00:56:22.701 you're gonna see -- Yes. 00:56:22.701 --> 00:56:25.801 Here tonight, Luna will be talking to a live audience 00:56:25.801 --> 00:56:28.734 at the museum with another Holocaust survivor. 00:56:28.734 --> 00:56:31.801 The cool thing, with the powers of technology 00:56:31.801 --> 00:56:34.334 is that you can actually watch this live, as well, 00:56:34.334 --> 00:56:37.834 from your computer, just kind of like how you're doing now. 00:56:37.834 --> 00:56:40.667 It's an event on Livestream. 00:56:40.667 --> 00:56:42.200 So, you guys can see the link right there. 00:56:42.200 --> 00:56:45.000 If you click on that at 6:00 Central Time, 00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:48.834 you'll see Luna, and she'll be talking to a live audience here. 00:56:48.834 --> 00:56:51.567 So, that's going to be another really neat thing. 00:56:51.567 --> 00:56:53.767 And actually, you know, 00:56:53.767 --> 00:56:55.901 I said we were gonna close with this Martin Niemoller quote. 00:56:55.901 --> 00:56:57.467 I'm going to bring it up again. 00:56:57.467 --> 00:56:59.767 And I'm going to bring up a poll question related to it. 00:56:59.767 --> 00:57:01.501 Let's see here. 00:57:01.501 --> 00:57:03.133 Now, my poll question for you all -- 00:57:03.133 --> 00:57:04.200 and this is one actually -- 00:57:04.200 --> 00:57:05.767 Instead of you answering a question, 00:57:05.767 --> 00:57:08.133 I'm going to have you type in your answer. 00:57:08.133 --> 00:57:10.534 So, what is this quote, do you think? 00:57:10.534 --> 00:57:11.667 What is the lesson? 00:57:11.667 --> 00:57:13.534 What is the meaning based on what, you know, 00:57:13.534 --> 00:57:16.400 you've heard Luna say today 00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:18.300 and based on what you've talked about in your class 00:57:18.300 --> 00:57:20.100 with the Holocaust, 00:57:20.100 --> 00:57:21.567 what do you think the meaning is? 00:57:21.567 --> 00:57:24.567 You're going to see right there you can type in your answer. 00:57:24.567 --> 00:57:26.567 I'm going to leave that quote up there for a second, 00:57:26.567 --> 00:57:29.601 but, teachers, let me give you some final reminders 00:57:29.601 --> 00:57:32.300 before we really officially close out today. 00:57:32.300 --> 00:57:33.968 There's some resources there. 00:57:33.968 --> 00:57:38.000 You see in that little box that says "web links." 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.300 There you can find some museum resources about the Holocaust. 00:57:41.300 --> 00:57:43.834 I've sent along a lesson plan and a teacher guide. 00:57:43.834 --> 00:57:46.033 If you didn't get that, it's right there, 00:57:46.033 --> 00:57:49.234 bibliographies for further reading. 00:57:49.234 --> 00:57:50.634 Local teachers -- 00:57:50.634 --> 00:57:53.067 So I know we have a lot of Louisiana teachers tuning in. 00:57:53.067 --> 00:57:55.534 We're going to have an Echoes & Reflections workshop here. 00:57:55.534 --> 00:58:00.100 It's on, I think, February 26th, and let me double check that. 00:58:00.100 --> 00:58:02.968 Yes, so, on February 26th, 00:58:02.968 --> 00:58:06.400 run by our local Anti-Defamation League chapter. 00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:08.033 So, that's a really good workshop 00:58:08.033 --> 00:58:09.901 if you've never been to it. 00:58:09.901 --> 00:58:12.133 Also, Luna has a book, 00:58:12.133 --> 00:58:16.534 and I also included the Amazon link to that book. 00:58:16.534 --> 00:58:19.534 And that's the kind of bottom link that you see on there. 00:58:19.534 --> 00:58:22.767 And so if you want to know more about her and about her life, 00:58:22.767 --> 00:58:25.300 her amazing life, her amazing story, 00:58:25.300 --> 00:58:26.868 you can read her book 00:58:26.868 --> 00:58:29.100 And we're actually going to look at some of -- 00:58:29.100 --> 00:58:31.767 I'm going to bring up your student responses here. 00:58:31.767 --> 00:58:33.000 Let's see if we can see them. 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:35.734 Let me broadcast the results here. 00:58:35.734 --> 00:58:37.300 All right. What did you guys say? 00:58:37.300 --> 00:58:40.734 "That you have to speak up when you have the chance, 00:58:40.734 --> 00:58:44.300 and you have to do it with boldness and courage." 00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:45.534 Man, I love that. 00:58:45.534 --> 00:58:47.868 "Always speak up against injustice." 00:58:47.868 --> 00:58:50.434 "Stand up for other people even though they are not like you." 00:58:50.434 --> 00:58:51.767 Oh, man. 00:58:51.767 --> 00:58:54.901 Well, I think you guys, you know, really understood, 00:58:54.901 --> 00:58:57.067 you know, what this webinar today was about 00:58:57.067 --> 00:59:00.534 and, you know, why we spend time studying this in school. 00:59:00.534 --> 00:59:01.968 Teachers, I'm going to actually -- 00:59:01.968 --> 00:59:03.501 I'm going to leave this up for you to keep responding, 00:59:03.501 --> 00:59:05.701 but I'm going to be giving you one final reminder. 00:59:05.701 --> 00:59:08.801 And, sorry, it's a plug for the museum. 00:59:08.801 --> 00:59:10.801 We have another --